Monday 7th October 2013 - In Sutton Harbour

Living in the UK at anchor with a dog and a toddler - what can possibly go wrong?!
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Monday 7th October 2013 - In Sutton Harbour

Post by Jeff »

We've made it to Plymouth!

Overnight stops in Salcombe then the Yealm - and now we're in Sutton Harbour, in the middle of Plymouth, where we used to live on Isabella, before we sailed around the UK, got married, and had Nina.

Sutton harbour is lovely - it has the nicest showers of any marina we've ever encountered all around the UK, and it's right in the middle of the cultural centre of Plymouth with restaurants, cocktail bars, theatres, a massive aquarium etc etc. Here's their website with pictures: http://www.suttonharbourmarina.com/

Will be nice to catch up with a few old friends while here including Terry & Val who live aboard in another nearby marina.

We set off having possibly finally fixed the air leak in the fuel system, and the fuel leak into the engine. The latter may still be resolved, only time will tell, but unfortunately air is still somehow finding its way into the fuel. I can bleed it out and be up and running from cold in about 60 seconds - and once running we have no issues whatsoever - so it's not fatal as-is, but I really want to sort it. It might be coming from the injector pump itself and if so, it could potentially get worse without warning. Very unlikely, but not ideal.

The trip here went very smoothly... except it was very roly around Salcombe and the Mewstone. We motored most of the way but when it came to Nina's lunchtime sleep yesterday, between Salcombe and Yealm (a 3 to 4 hour trip), and partly because we had to wait a while to enter the Yealm due to low tide, I switched off the engine and put up our mizzen, main and jib. I didn't expect much from it as the wind was light and coming from 45 degrees off dead ahead but remarkably we were making 4 knots into it and ended up having to overshoot and turn back in order to take up time so we could enter safely.

Then this morning was filling me with dread. Parking in Sutton Harbour scared me in Isabella (previous boat) so you can imagine how I felt in Towser!

I phoned ahead to book a space and let them know how I felt - so two people were on hand to assist. I shouldn't have bothered - I pulled off a textbook parking manoeuvre into a very tight finger berth, alongside a large yacht - so good was it that I was complemented by the berthing master.

Heading off shortly to enjoy the sites and sounds of Plymouth...
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Post by Discus »

Nice one. Welcome back to the Plymouth chapter. Do you feel all nostalgic for the old days of living in Plymouth? Makes you want to break into song ( http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlv0Inq8yxc )!

Rob :dj:
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Post by Jeff »

Hehe thanks for that Rob :)

Yes it does bring back good memories. We've had a lot of good times here :)
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Post by Jeff »

So, I just paid Pirtek a bonkers amount of dosh to replace the final hose section, all connectors, and the olive.

Then I checked the oil level in the injector pump. It had about half a pint too much in it. Has to have come from somewhere. And it smelt of fuel.

I think I found the problem. Fuel's been leaking into the injector pump, and allowing air back into the fuel. Likely that might have been the problem all the time.

So we need to have the pump refurbished.

General consensus around Sutton Harbour is that as we've emptied it and replaced the content with fresh oil - so long as we make sure the level is OK - we'll be OK for the rest of the season with light engine use.

Little project for the winter then. Get the injector pump removed, refurbished and replaced. Its also been suggested we get the injectors done at the same time.

Bit miserable about this unexpected twist in the tale. Thought we were nearly there. :(

On a lighter note, I think the main engine oil level has dropped a little. That's the first time ever since we bought the boat - so I reckon I've nipped the fuel leak in the main engine problem in the bud.

Meanwhile the weather for the coming weekend is looking decidedly naff, so we might be stuck in Plymouth longer than planned.
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Post by Discus »

Oooooooooh! Sounds expensive! A suggestion would be do you know any farmers? Strange question I know but your engine also found its way into Ford tractors ( I think! Don't quote me on it!). They may know a good tractor dealers or repairers that would recondition the pump. Another alternative would be getting it reconditioned by a truck repair place as your engine was definitely in a Ford Cargo back in the day. Sounds like your injector pump is more complex than the bog standard ones which generally work or don't, there usually isn't much in between. Still think that hose/ olive combo was a problem in the making! Don't tell me the weather is crappy! It's our last but one weekend this week! If its any consolation, our new Raymarine wheel pilot still won't work (unless you like sailing around in circles), the steering still leaks water, the bilge still has a fuel/oil smell that could outlast religion and the season finishes for us on the 21st. Somebody shoot me now!!! :shaking:

Rob
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Post by Jeff »

Oh dear :(

I just heard on the news that the UK this weekend is going to be colder than St Petersburg - with frost and horizontal hail.

I hope you like sailing around in ever decreasing circles as you slowly sink in the snowy maelstrom this weekend.

Meanwhile, I found some more info about our injector pump. Oil should be changed every 50 hours run. It is known to leak fuel into the oil even when fully operational - it's normal - and this is a 35 year old pump.

So I wonder if the 200ml rise I saw in there was within normal range for the pump given I last filled it 111 hours ago.

And, I wonder also if the rise in level causes the air above the injector pump oil to be pressurised (it is a closed system) which causes it to be 'forced' into the fuel - manifesting at the last bleed screw. If so this would be worse after a long hard engine run than after a short run at idle. These are my exact symptoms.

The filler cap on the injector pump is a big cross head screw. I struggle to do it up tight with a screwdriver so I've been getting the mole grips on it. Maybe it's not _meant_ to be done up that tight so air can escape from it as the level in it rises.

Maybe.

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic - unlike me!
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Post by Jeff »

Someone said this on another forum:

Q. "if the level is rising in the injector pump, won't the pressure of the air above the oil in there be increasing?"

A. "That's one of the common problems with the fuel pump, one work around to this is to drill a very small hole in the filler plug. Personally I haven't done that but I do know many of the Grand Banks owners with Ford engines have done so."

Leaving engine alone a while to see if air returns. Watch this space.
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Post by Discus »

Eh? Would the lubricating oil and the fuel supply not be different systems? In that scenario, what would stop the engine from combusting all the oil in the pump? :?
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Post by Jeff »

They are separate.

Injector pump has its own mini oil sump.

When running, fuel under pressure makes it way into the sump, slowly building up the level. Hence recommended 50 hour interval between changing the oil in there.

Because I'd let ours build up considerably, the pressure in the air over the sump was quite high. And would be particularly raised after a long engine run.

When shut down, that air then slowly bubbled back into the injector pump by the same route perhaps that the fuel got in.

This matches my symptoms entirely.

I just re-checked and there is zero air at the final bleed screw. I hadn't turned off the fuel, and I haven't run the engine for over 48 hours. So the above theory may just be right! Hope so!

Meanwhile, have you seen the forecast now? It went from t-shirt weather yesterday to thick jumper weather today :(
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Post by Discus »

Let's hope this is the cause and you can not smell of diesel for a few weeks! Does make me want to ask the question why there is no breather on the injection pump sump like you have in the engine crankcase? Also it occurs to me why do you have to change the injection pump oil every 50 hours. How do the folk who have the engine in generator form cope? It would be a right pain! I have my fingers crossed for you again.
Weather looks a bit carp for at least Saturday ( windy) but Sunday might be OK. This may however mean a weekend at home for us as its a long way down for just one day of OK sailing. Just my luck at the moment :scratch:

Rob
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Post by Jeff »

The pump has a purpose made drain port which only works if the engine is level. So marinised ones, especially those canted back a bit to in-line with the propshaft, have that port blocked off. When blocked off the recommended action is to drill a tiny hole through the filler cap.

I thought Sunday looked OK for us to sail back East, but very overcast and rainy. If I was you I'd definitely not bother heading down :(
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Post by Discus »

Ahh! That makes more sense. Yes, weekend weather is a bit of a let down ( http://www.windfinder.com/forecast/moun ... n_plymouth ). May be better to explore the fleshpots of Plymouth for a few more days - or at least until Monday. Keep the stove stoked up!

Rob :albino:
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Post by Terry T »

Shouldn't rely on the forecast too much . The HM at yealm had the latest one on Wednesday night indicating that wind yesterday was to be f7 to 8 . Made an early dash back to Plymouth yesterday morning for what ?? It was like a summers day all day .
:evil: :evil:

what's your plans Jeff ??
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Post by Jeff »

It's coming!

We're heading back to Dartmouth on Sunday I think. Sutton harbour tonight. Anchor somewhere tomorrow night.
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Post by Discus »

Jeff wrote:It's coming!.
Has it turned up? Hoping the forecast is not McDuff like Terry suggested. I have boat withdrawal - after a truly crappy week here I am pretty gutted not to be afloat for the weekend :(

Rob
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