Ablutions while living aboard (sea toilet and holding tanks)

FSDSMAN · Post by **FSDSMAN** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:12 pm

OK this could be a sensitive issue for some or not important for others depending on your habits. Right when I do get my yacht to live on - not if - then how the hell does one do the daily neccesary unless you are 3 miles off shore? Sea toilets are a big no no for a marina or even if you ignore the rules you need a tidal flow to err discharge. Some marina's offer pump out if you have holding tanks but the marina where I plan to be based does not. It does have showers, toilets etc but after a few ciders and a curry wandering to the service block at 3 in the morning may not be ideal. So how long before a holding tank fills? What about "grey waste" shower water or washing up? Does this mean you have to sail or motor out of the marina every time you wish to use your own facilities? Just asking advidce so I know what I need in place when this happens and what size tank etc.
Regards

Terry T · Post by **Terry T** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:48 am

The marina we are in has 400+ berths and has pump out facilities . I've seen anyone use it in all the years we have been here ........... So work it out

Post by **Jeff** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:50 pm

Good question.

In a marina which is not tidal, or behind a lock, one becomes very regular. If you go to the loo in the 'facilities' daily in the late eve, even if you don't feel the need, it's really not a problem. When we lived in a marina (and now in the one we're visiting atm) we timed it with the walk of the dog so was no hassle.

However - having said all of the above - we've been to a canal with a lock which opens perhaps once a month - and there is no flow. Right behind said lock are about 5 liveaboard boats. None of them have holding tanks. There is zero odour or problem there - even after a very very hot week (as it was when we were there) - but I suspect rather a lot of very happy critters munching away below.

Discus · Post by **Discus** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:44 pm

Mind you I suppose if you stop off for a quick takeaway from the Indian restaurant then the 'rhythm' may be somewhat upset!

FSDSMAN · Post by **FSDSMAN** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:37 pm

Well just agreed a settlement figure with the partner so this is gonna happen in the next 2 weeks. Was thinking of going to Greece or south of france for a boat as the UK prices are seriously way over priced but may have found what I want. A Bavaria 39 Lagoon with Owners cabin but no holding tanks. Not sure of headroom. I have had a reply from 2 marina's regarding turning a blind eye for extended stays on the boat also but they are mud births so Tidal helps with the grey water issue but not sure on the drying out. might be a problem with the depth of the fin keel although I saw a Bavaria 42 there happily mud sitting there but it is very very narrow to get up the channel but would still need to fit holding tanks I guess. Another marina also that I am keen on has all the facilities showers, etc and is accesable at all tide states but if found extended stays they might kick me out. What happens if they do but I have paid for a year in advance?
Wish me luck.
Anybody recommend a good school for fast track sail qualifications?

FSDSMAN · Post by **FSDSMAN** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:41 pm

been visiting the pub that overlooks the marina to see any night activity. A few tellys and lights on in some boats and a conversation with a bloke that had a 48 foot power yacht (must have cost around £600.0000.00 and the biggest in the marina) hinted that some are permanently aboard so I guess just keep your head down?

Post by **Jeff** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:49 am

Hi. Blimey you're really jumping in at the deep end aren't you!

Unsure what would happen if you got booted out before your contract ended. Guess it would depend on the specific terms of the marina in which you reside. If they don't officially allow you to do so then keep a low profile I guess. If it was me I'd not be very happy trying to live somewhere I knew didn't want me to. All the marinas we've lived in knew and were completely fine with it.

You could do what we do and go marina free, berth free, and just anchor!

Unsure exactly what you mean re drying mooring but if you mean what I think you do then there's no way you could live in a marina which dries, on a fin keeled yacht. There's no way they'd even let you moor it there. Think I must have misunderstood something.

I'd strongly recommend that before you do _anything_ else you go on a practical sailing course. Why not do a week's Yachtmaster Coastal practical course in Jersey or somewhere nice? That's what we did. It was excellent fun. You'd learn oodles of essential info.

Also highly recommend getting a surveyor involved in the purchase. A good one. That knows the boat type you're thinking of.

Keep us posted on your progress. And good luck!

FSDSMAN · Post by **FSDSMAN** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:05 pm

The drying out or half tide marina's are mud births and state a max of 2 meter draught and the fact that a Bavaria 42 is there happily sitting in mud at low tide suggests that 2 meters is ok and the Bavaria is a fin keel and also a sun odyssey 40 there. I fully intend to do a fast track course and I am under no illusions as to how hard life afloat can be at times. Although not sailed for a long time and then nothing bigger that a 24 foot Cat I know I have a lot to learn but did spend most of my youth in the Sea Scouts and building kit form Mirrors, canoe's etc and spent 2 days a week for around 10 years sailing them on the Medway, Thames and on the coast and been aboard small fishing vessels when it has got rough very rough so I know what to expect but also my limitations so will never put the boat at risk. Had a quote for land delivery and it is cheaper than I expected so that will be the route back me thinks.
It would be interesting on how you approached the marinas regarding extended stays. I need a land based address and business operation abode but they are sorted today but because of this I need a fixed mooring with shore access at all times so a marina with a finger birth or pontoon is essential at the moment but the lifestyle of permanent cruising is my ultimate aim

Discus · Post by **Discus** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:16 pm

Mud berths and fin feelers tend not to be happy bed fellows. In your example, there will be huge strain on the big spade rudder which will, over time weaken it as you are asking it to do something it was not intended to do. Mud berths are more suited to bilge keelers or perhaps a long keeled yacht which will, over time, dig itself a hole to sit in. The other issue you will have is that drying berths are incredibly restrictive on your sailing as you usually have to commit to being out sailing for quite a while each time as you can't pop back after a couple of hours if the weather craps out on you. I have friends who kept a long keeled yacht in a mud berth, it was a real cramp on their sailing time. If you can be located anywhere, you should be able to find a full tide marina berth with 24 hour access that you can live aboard without too much issue.

FSDSMAN · Post by **FSDSMAN** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:20 am

That is the problem - well for the moment - it has to be in Kent or poss south coast but all the marina's I have looked at I get the feeling that "don't even mention live aboard" is the attitude and one particular multi chain marina group even state in the terms and conditions "no more than 40 nights per year onboard in the marina" I would definitely prefer a marina as you suggest but finding one is impossible in this area.

Post by **Jeff** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:36 am

Have you checked out Brighton? Lots of liveaboards there.

FSDSMAN · Post by **FSDSMAN** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:48 pm

yes very expensive but also belongs to the same group who have ststed the no more than 40 in there terms and conditions. I guess it is a gamble if they ignore you or not

Post by **Jeff** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:11 pm

Oh weird, things must have changed there then. Maybe for most marinas you're correct then. What a shame!

evenkeel · Post by **evenkeel** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:05 pm

A friend of mine lived on his boat for about 3 years in a marina before he headed off to the med. This marina also had a no continious liveaboard policy, stating something along the lines of they would be liable for the council tax, then would have to try and collect it off boaters who would argue that they hadnt stayed on board consequtive number of nights, got back late in the night, gone home and come back early in morning etc etc causing too much hassle for the marina to police, which is why most have this no liveaboard policy, but turn a blind eye as long as your not flaunting the issue.

FSDSMAN · Post by **FSDSMAN** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:02 pm

Yes that is what I think I am trying to understand. I make no bones about the fact that I will have extended stays aboard my boat but also fully intend to keep the boat fit for purpose. Unlike some of the yachts I have observed in some marina's that are quite clearly just dumped there and fester into decay and look like they have not moved for 16 years. I also will maintain a shore based address and a place of work but this is the most frustrating part about marinas. I will expect to be able to live - or shall we say - extend my stay on my boat that I pay in excess of 3.5K a year to berth - plus other charges like electricity etc and also accept the fact that certain rules and obligations must be kept. I used to do quite a bit of work regarding the environment and protecting it and also would want my boat to be in tip top condition regarding my budget rather than be an owner who has money to burn or tax dodge and buys a boat and leaves it to rot because he can claim tax back. I do find the whole issue absurd in some respects. If I purchased a mobile home or caravan and paid the camp site fees they are not going to tell me I can only use it 8 days a month. Realistically I will need to spend 3 months a year in accommodation and get the boat out for that time for annual work and also will be spending some time away from it for work etc. I just want to build the dream and develop it rather that have every gate closed on every turn.